Accounting Flow is a podcast deep dive into accounting firm workflow & processes.. In each episode, we uncover specific processes that firm owners and operators encounter on a daily basis and discuss ways to improve them. Brought to you by Financial Cents and hosted by Roman Villard, CPA, and Shahram Zarshenas.

Collaboration, but make it genius💡

Dave Kersting and Tonya Shulte are rewriting the rules with their co-firming blueprint, and it’s about to change the game.

Here’s what you’ll walk away with:

– Workflows so smooth, you’ll wonder why you didn’t try this sooner.

– Scaling tips that don’t come with extra headaches.

– Automation tricks to make your team run like a well-oiled machine (with less coffee).

– Client-relationship hacks to help you grow while staying sane.

– And most importantly—more freedom to focus on the stuff that actually matters.

Ready to level up? This episode’s got your back. Don’t miss it!

Timestamps

0:00 Risk Management and Legal Considerations

0:36 Introduction to Co-Firming and Initial Context

4:32 Development and Evolution of Co-Firming

6:51 Challenges and Successes in Co-Firming

13:35 Financial and Operational Aspects of Co-Firming

22:02 Risk Management and Legal Considerations

27:39 Community and Influence in the Accounting Industry

40:57 Future of Co-Firming and Final Thoughts

Roman Villard
All right, I think we’re live, so we’ve got another live episode of Accounting Flow. This is actually a part two episode of a previous show we did about co-firming. I’m super excited to have Tonya Schulte and Dave Kersting back with us to chat a little more in-depth about co-firming and some changes, improvements, and ideas they’ve had over the course of the last six months since the last time we recorded. Great to have you both. Thanks for coming on.

Dave Kersting
Happy to be here!

Roman Villard
We had a lively discussion last time, and I knew diving deeper into this would be helpful. As a firm owner, I’m curious: how do you expand your opportunities? How do you create collaborative and healthy relationships with other firms? Maybe we start by giving a little context about what co-firming is, and then we can move forward. Tonya, would you like to start?

Tonya Schulte
Yeah, sure. So, how Dave and I envision co-firming… We’ve always been part of a great group called Roundtable Labs, where there’s a lot of collaboration, workflow sharing, and client referrals. About three years ago, Dave and I realized that we could solve each other’s problems. Dave needed to grow his firm but was at that weird tipping point—you know, where you need to hire but can’t quite yet? I had capacity issues as we had taken on more work than we could handle. So, we started by subbing out some work to each other.

As we dove deeper, we saw real value in collaborating more extensively. Instead of just a subcontractor relationship, we realized that we were in this together. And so, we coined the term “co-firming.” It wasn’t just a one-off solution but a long-term strategy to grow together.

Dave Kersting
I love it! Did you trademark that yet?

Roman Villard
Yeah, did you?

Tonya Schulte
Not yet, but we should. It’s really becoming a thing. Co-firming has allowed us to keep the autonomy of our firms while working together to better serve our clients. It all started because we both had a need to grow and expand, but now it’s evolved into something bigger—focusing on the client’s needs.

We brought in CPAs, tax advisors, and coaches, and built a team of about 30 people. We dubbed it the “90-day remodel,” where we set clear goals for the first 90 days of working with a client. Co-firming helps us leverage each firm’s strengths, lift each other up, and offer training so we all grow together.

Roman Villard
That’s a great point. And it’s fascinating because it doesn’t sound like your traditional subcontractor model. You mentioned the word “collaboration,” but how do you ensure that collaboration actually works?

Tonya Schulte
Exactly, it’s not your typical subcontractor setup. Collaboration works because we share values and goals. For example, we have a common mission and vision, and we ensure that the work remains consistent across all co-firmers. To make sure the quality of work is the same, we’ve invested in a Quality Assurance Manager who oversees everything. This person ensures that no matter which firm is handling the work, the quality is always at the same high standard.

Another thing we’re exploring is collaborative marketing. We’re beginning to harness the collective marketing power of all the co-firmers. Imagine how much stronger our marketing campaigns can be when we all contribute and work together!

Dave Kersting
Right, and I love that collaborative marketing idea because it aligns with our overall vision. We have multiple firms coming together, each with their ideal client, but as a co-firm, we also have a collective message. It’s important to identify why clients would want to work with us as a co-firm and understand what success looks like.

Roman Villard
It sounds like co-firming has really deepened your relationship as firm owners. What’s one of the key challenges you’ve faced when bringing multiple firm owners, each with their own opinions and leadership styles, together in a collaborative environment?

Tonya Schulte
That’s a great question. It’s not easy, especially since each firm owner has their own autonomy and leadership style. But one thing we’ve emphasized from the start is the importance of servant leadership. Every firm owner we bring into the room needs to come in with the mindset that they’re there to serve everyone else.

We’ve been able to build a sense of trust because we all share the same values. There’s no power play; instead, there’s open communication, respect, and the ability to have honest conversations when challenges arise.

Sure! Continuing from where we left off:

Dave Kersting
And to add to that, this isn’t a dictatorship. We’ve made it clear that as co-firmers, we’re in this together. We want to hear what everyone has to say, and we’re willing to take feedback from all the firms involved. We don’t pretend to know everything. In fact, we constantly learn from each other.

We’ve also set some clear expectations to avoid confusion. For example, we decided that for all co-firmers, we’ll use Financial Cents as our workflow software. That’s non-negotiable. We’ve built in those kinds of decisions to keep things running smoothly and ensure we’re all aligned.

Roman Villard
It sounds like having a unified tech stack is crucial. What other tactical elements do you think are essential for making this kind of relationship work?

Dave Kersting
Yes, the tech stack is essential, but it’s also about having shared quality control processes and clear contracts. For example, when it comes to managing something like workers’ compensation audits, Tonya and I might have different approaches, but we collaborate to develop a consistent process across the co-firm.

And it’s not just about tech. It’s about trust and ensuring every firm involved delivers the same high quality of work, no matter who’s handling it. That’s why we’ve also created a quality control system that’s consistent across the board.

Roman Villard
That makes a lot of sense. And speaking of risk management—because when you’re working with multiple firms, I imagine there’s a lot of risk involved—how do you manage that? Who holds the legal responsibility in these situations?

Tonya Schulte
Right now, since we haven’t yet formed a legal entity for the super firm concept, we’re still working as individual firms in a contractor-subcontractor relationship. So, each firm is responsible for its own contracts and the clients it brings in. However, we do collect certificates of insurance from each co-firm, and we’re working with legal counsel to figure out how this will evolve as we formalize the co-firming structure.

We’ve also had to work through risk-sharing conversations, such as what happens if a client fires one firm but wants to keep the other? That’s where having clear agreements and strong communication comes in. We’re learning as we go, and it’s definitely a process.

Dave Kersting
And insurance is a big part of it too. We’re working on setting up shared insurance coverage for when we officially form the super firm. But right now, as Tonya said, whoever holds the contract with the client is ultimately responsible.

Roman Villard
It sounds like co-firming is a continuous learning process. With legal frameworks, risk management, and marketing all in the mix, how do you keep everything running smoothly without overwhelming yourselves?

Tonya Schulte
It’s definitely a balancing act, and you have to be okay with the fact that you won’t get everything perfect right away. But the key is communication and having the right people involved. For instance, we have an executive team that includes the key owners of the power firm, and we also have a council made up of co-firmers who provide feedback on important decisions.

We meet regularly to discuss everything, from our tech stack to our month-end closing process, and we constantly tweak things as we go. It takes time, but we’re building something that’s designed to last.

Dave Kersting
Exactly. Every week, we’re learning and refining how we work together. Our teams are learning too. In fact, my team members love getting on Zoom calls with Tonya’s team because they’re learning so much from working with multiple firms.

Roman Villard
It’s incredible how co-firming has opened up so many possibilities. So, for anyone listening and thinking about forming their own co-firm, what advice would you give them for getting started?

Tonya Schulte
First, I’d say you need to make sure you’re aligned on values. Co-firming only works if everyone shares the same values and goals. If you don’t have that alignment, it’s going to be difficult to make it work.

Second, be prepared to communicate—a lot. You need to be open and honest, especially when challenges arise. And make sure you have a clear quality control process in place from the beginning. This will help maintain consistency across all the firms involved.

Dave Kersting
And I would add: don’t try to do everything yourself. You need third-party support, whether it’s a lawyer, a coach, or a mentor, to help guide you through the process. It’s also important to have tough conversations upfront—like how you’ll handle things if the partnership doesn’t work out or if there’s a disagreement. You need to plan for those situations before they happen.

Roman Villard
That’s great advice. Tonya, Dave, thank you so much for sharing your insights on co-firming. It’s clear that you’ve both built something really special, and I’m excited to see where this journey takes you.

Tonya Schulte
Thank you, Roman. It’s been great to talk about this, and we’re excited to keep growing and learning together.

Dave Kersting
Yeah, thanks for having us. It’s always a pleasure to chat about co-firming and share what we’ve learned.